tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post5839930676978633183..comments2023-12-26T17:07:06.724+08:00Comments on Avon Napoleonic Fellowship: A Heart-breaking EncounterUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-28541239129630830042018-06-10T23:55:47.647+08:002018-06-10T23:55:47.647+08:00Should anyone happen to stumble on this post rathe...Should anyone happen to stumble on this post rather than a later one - we have now playtested Grand Fleet Actions in the Age of Sail, which addresses all the points made in this blog post and is ideally suited to exactly what it says, fleet actions in the age of sail. The blog post can be found here http://avonnapoleonicfellowship.blogspot.com/2018/06/grand-fleet-actions-in-age-of-sail.html. Julian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-33010108539040370492017-07-01T18:35:59.309+08:002017-07-01T18:35:59.309+08:00It now looks as if Grand Fleet Actions in the Age ...It now looks as if Grand Fleet Actions in the Age of Sail might be the rule set I've been looking for. A major playtest will have to await some serious solo wargaming, though, after this disaster...Julian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-28179445545172386392017-06-22T19:51:02.941+08:002017-06-22T19:51:02.941+08:00Your work so great!
gclub
www.golden-slot.comYour work so great!<br /><br /><a href="http://www.dlyzky.com" rel="nofollow">gclub</a><br /><a href="https://www.golden-slot.com" rel="nofollow">www.golden-slot.com</a>Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08343617733558643026noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-76716293040109916902017-02-14T08:55:30.500+08:002017-02-14T08:55:30.500+08:00Thanks Elliot.
No doubt we'll have a few quer...Thanks Elliot.<br /><br />No doubt we'll have a few queries after our play-test. That won't be for a few weeks yet though...James Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17897755636246185173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-67882646840421605082017-02-14T04:18:55.872+08:002017-02-14T04:18:55.872+08:00James,
Do feel free to talk to Jeff - "War A...James,<br /><br />Do feel free to talk to Jeff - "War Artisan" himself with any questions or concerns. He would also welcome your feedback on your experiences. Playtesting is always best when done with people who do not game with the author.<br /><br />ElliottAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-78592063161940312882017-02-13T08:38:53.016+08:002017-02-13T08:38:53.016+08:00Thanks for alerting us to these Elliot. Having now...Thanks for alerting us to these Elliot. Having now skimmed them and then read them in more detail, I ditto Julian's comment, that they look interesting and well worth taking the ships for a 'spin'.<br /><br />I appreciate that a clear and elegant 'system' is presented in just 12 pages of rules (16 if you include appendices and the 'Grand Tactical module'). I'm impressed that they are an innovative 'system', clearly aimed at trying to represent historical actions in a simple and effective manner. Well done Jeff! I get most annoyed with so-called 'new' rules that have nothing, new apart from a few pictures, pilfering ideas from various existing sets (without any recognition of the ideas or inspiration) and adding nothing to the hobby apart from 'yet another set'. Sadly, these abound in Napoleonic land wargaming.<br /><br />To parrot and expand on Julian's comment above, the use of groups, gunnery, apportioning of damage and even boarding/collision rules seem excellent. They simply and, it would seem, effectively get around the problem of players a-historically having their ships gang up on one opponent.<br /><br />I'm not sure about having ships remain as groups though. I 'think' that I'd prefer some sort of 'telescoping' rule (all puns intended--Peter Anderson will enjoy that one if he's still reading, I'm sure) whereby you begin operating as groups or squadrons and then get down to individual ships once the action gets messy and begins to break-up. Sort of similar to the rules Impetus (for Ancient-Mediaeval land warfare). Ships becoming 'stragglers' will in part represent this, but not the 'switch' to more individual ship to ship combat. However, I stress that I 'think' I do... <br /><br />It may be that, I find it completely unnecessary to add such detail. Obviously Jeff did.... As with companies and other detail from smaller-scale rules that I do not 'miss' in Shako (our preferred set for Napoleonic land warfare) I may well be happy to 'lose' specifically moving and calculating for individual ships so that we can recreate large naval actions in the same enjoyable, realistic and appropriately-scaled manner as we have for Borodino, Lutzen, Bautzen, Waterloo and so forth.<br /><br />Only a proper play-test of 'Admirals' will tell.<br /><br />Thanks again for bringing them to our attention. Whether or not we adopt them or adapt them for our purposes, I think that we'll be the better for having tried them.<br />Cheers,<br />JamesJames Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17897755636246185173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-52375108358237091812017-02-12T22:33:43.875+08:002017-02-12T22:33:43.875+08:00You might find this interesting:
http://theminiat...You might find this interesting:<br /><br />http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=427226Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-8218181727669201122017-02-12T21:43:40.958+08:002017-02-12T21:43:40.958+08:00I've taken a look and yes, they do look intere...I've taken a look and yes, they do look interesting at first sight I think we will try them out in a playtest. I like the way the damage rules work. Julian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-6401268305735567592017-02-12T12:45:13.649+08:002017-02-12T12:45:13.649+08:00May I suggest the rules "Admirals" from ...May I suggest the rules "Admirals" from War Artisan. They are a free PDF set of rules available from the the website below.<br /><br />One player can easily handle 16-30 ships. The rules are elegant and give the correct period feel without huge amount of record keeping. The aim of the author is to give you the feel of what it was to be an admiral and not a mere post captain.<br /><br />http://warartisan.com/rules<br /><br />Elliott James<br /><br />elliottwjames@comcast.net One of the Jeff's playtester.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-83212031984693674192017-02-09T06:12:43.929+08:002017-02-09T06:12:43.929+08:00Ships actually being sunk (shattered or lost due t...Ships actually being sunk (shattered or lost due to fire) were pretty rare. I can't remember exactly how many times but not many fingers on a hand needed to count them I thinkDavid Manleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15618853603602429096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-4827082089575032702017-02-08T15:05:23.365+08:002017-02-08T15:05:23.365+08:00They certainly do. I'll post the rules up on l...They certainly do. I'll post the rules up on line as soon as they are properly playtested and will be very keen to get comments.Julian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-86186689076936836742017-02-08T15:00:25.507+08:002017-02-08T15:00:25.507+08:00I think it could do, actually. As a matter of inte...I think it could do, actually. As a matter of interest though, do you happen to recall how many ships were actually sunk (not striking) during any of those battles? Southampton was my old home town, as it happens. Julian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-62874727915511900892017-02-08T14:58:37.305+08:002017-02-08T14:58:37.305+08:00I apologise, this was Signal Close Action, not For...I apologise, this was Signal Close Action, not Form Line of Battle. My colleagues found the sailing rules in FLOB problematic, and the loss of the Alexandre was perplexing to be sure. We resolved to press on and try other rule sets as a result.Julian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-34964810853497127382017-02-07T01:53:42.365+08:002017-02-07T01:53:42.365+08:00"ships striking whilst out of range of the en..."ships striking whilst out of range of the enemy, as per FLOB" How does that happen, other than fire damage?David Manleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15618853603602429096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-12730051674597880152017-02-07T01:52:10.012+08:002017-02-07T01:52:10.012+08:00Surprised you didn't think FLoB would allow a ...Surprised you didn't think FLoB would allow a major fleet action to be fought in a day or two. I've played in a few recreations of Trafalgar and other big battles using the rules which were completed well within a day (the quickest was a game at the old Southampton club that was done in 3 hours). That said, a fleet level set of rules that concentrated on what admirals are thinking about and doing rather than individual captains is something that I think would be rather useful, and indeed is something that I've been working on for a whileDavid Manleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15618853603602429096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-70932922268965173692017-02-06T21:10:43.989+08:002017-02-06T21:10:43.989+08:00Here, here!
And on, On, ON!!!Here, here!<br /><br />And on, On, ON!!!Sun of Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07315805432481558574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-33759040674128187872017-02-06T21:09:29.088+08:002017-02-06T21:09:29.088+08:00As the French admiral I thought the game was playi...As the French admiral I thought the game was playing well. That my van turned into the wind to engage the enemy... Well, what can you say? (love ya Julian).<br /><br />One minute per turn, mm moves and as Julian has identified rapidly accumulating hull damage meant there were going to be problems.<br /><br />BUT<br /><br />This was our first attempt with these rules. It was a massive attempt. Most players had not read the rules (correct me if I'm wrong). It was fascinating to be using a 1/1000th ground scale as well as model scale. We had probably deployed our ships too close. We also (based on a comment I had on my post of this game), should have been adjusting the sail settings to keep in formation (something I don't agree with, but still).<br /><br />For games of this size, just like army level actions with Napoleonic land forces, you have to assume the unit/ship commanders know their stuff.<br /><br />Some issues could have been addressed for this scenario by specifying crew and ship quality, rather than leaving it to the dice.<br /><br />BUT<br /><br />Fabulous Julian! Thanks so much for the time and effort you put in to research, collect and motivate us all to play (and it was also f'ing hot as the day wore on). We could ask for no more. Great endeavour. Well done, mate!Sun of Yorkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07315805432481558574noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-19664378584429517442017-02-06T20:30:35.935+08:002017-02-06T20:30:35.935+08:00Nice post Julian.
Certainly no need to apologise t...Nice post Julian.<br />Certainly no need to apologise to any of us!<br />While the game was even less exciting than a game of association football, the camaraderie, humour and 'men's shed' aspect was all there as ever--especially great to have Stephen and the two Perthite Mark's there. Mark H's own post attests to the enjoyment that he derived from the game (http://onesidedminiaturewargamingdiscourse.blogspot.com.au/2017/01/heart-of-oak.html)<br />Then there was the shear 'spectacle' of seeing all of those ships on the table--marvellous effort by you in gathering most of them and rounding up the 'troops' to bring along the rest. THAT's the sort of naval wargaming that we want to do!!<br />Added to that we have the very real prospect that we'll have a workable set of rules that suits the games that we like to play at the ANF in the not too distant. Let's face it, like all models, one only needs to get somewhere around 60-70% to capture most of the essence of the system being 'simulated'. It should be relatively easy to achieve that. There will then be several games to iron out the worst of the bugs, a fine prospect...!<br />On, on!!James Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17897755636246185173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-58940668535052139442017-02-06T17:47:33.612+08:002017-02-06T17:47:33.612+08:00Thanks Phil, but it was very frustrating. I won...Thanks Phil, but it was very frustrating. I won't give up on this, but it requires a lot more work on a set of rules. I am surprised a similar evolution in rules for Napoleonic naval hasn't taken place as it has for land wargaming, but it quite evidently hasn't.Julian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-50504009684340589862017-02-06T16:50:05.059+08:002017-02-06T16:50:05.059+08:00Impressive naval encounter, nice ships and picture...Impressive naval encounter, nice ships and pictures...Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08913029478686087197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-78837816381576098042017-02-06T16:11:35.229+08:002017-02-06T16:11:35.229+08:00Hi Julian - I haven't tried a naval game like ...Hi Julian - I haven't tried a naval game like this for many years but the rules may need to be a bit more abstract to get a result in a days gaming. I look forward to seeing how you get on.Strykerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14258922461691204362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-65195439034150132982017-02-06T13:36:25.345+08:002017-02-06T13:36:25.345+08:00But that causes equally bizarre results, e.g. ship...But that causes equally bizarre results, e.g. ships striking whilst out of range of the enemy, as per FLOB. No, surely what is needed is to junk the entire 'points' system as simply inappropriate and unnecessary. Striking should be a morale issue caused by damage, outnumbered and surrounded, etc. Fire, if it happens - rare- can sink a ship. Movement by squadrons - maybe initially, yes, but individual ship commanders did a lot to achieve victory once one got in close. Let me see what I can come up with as a modification of Heart of Oak and put it up on line for commentJulian Rochehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17670263328608312736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-3698305268669411492017-02-06T13:27:28.110+08:002017-02-06T13:27:28.110+08:00yes the concentration of fire and accurate movemen...yes the concentration of fire and accurate movement are the critical items in any such a 'scale-up' of naval action rules systemsMurdocKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08693711825249632305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8493556920707083758.post-59911879936001291572017-02-06T12:29:20.997+08:002017-02-06T12:29:20.997+08:00Good Luck!
This was a huge action, on the scale o...Good Luck!<br /><br />This was a huge action, on the scale of Trafalgar! It is fairly easy to make running out of Hull points (Or whatever) cause a ship to strike or check morale, rather than be sunk. To handle battles at this size, IMHO movement must be done by squadrons. Gonsalvohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16531623280789478092noreply@blogger.com